Episode 98: Black Armory Forge and Scourge of the Past Weapons Breakdown
Let’s talk about the Scourge of the Past Raid weapons, and the Black Armory Forge as well!
Massive Breakdown of Black Armory Forge and Scourge of the Past Weapons (Including Stats, Times-to-Kill, and Recommended Perks)
If you'd like to hear a more in-depth discussion of these weapons and their perks, check out the Massive Breakdown Podcast, Episode 98!
For all the numbers and a full list of guns, the Weapon Stats Spreadsheet has you covered.
For just things like Barrel and Sight stats, you can go to the BSMT Visual Tool.
Several things to note:
These are not the experimental Black Armory weapons that are Year 1 guns with random rolls and the X designation.
Classes are broken down into Impact Archetypes.
These are strictly my opinions, so I'm very aware that a lot of people will probably disagree with them.
The Bolded Perk/Perks in each slot mean that I recommend using them the most. If there are no bolded perks, it means that I feel any of the listed perks are fine to use in the slot.
This is not a comprehensive list of every perk available in the pools, just the ones I recommend. Occasionally, some perks that are on the Curated Masterwork Version cannot be found on the randomly rolled version.
All Times-to-Kill are assuming Guardian has 192hp (6 Resiliency).
Pros and Cons are determined by comparing weapons within the same class, not by all weapons in general, and not by only the weapons within the archetype. If you would like a different or more specific comparison than what I have listed, feel free to ask and I can provide one in the comments.
Some of the "Curated" rolls may not be available in-game, but I've listed them here in case they become available.
Kindled Orchid - Energy (Void) - BA Forge
Pros - Very high recoil direction. Above average stability.
Neutral - Average range, reload speed, handling, aim assist, and mag size.
Cons - None.
Time-to-Kill: 0.87s (3 crit), 1.73s (5 body)
Rate of Fire: 140
Impact: 78 (70 crit, 47 body)
Reload Speed: 48
Aim Assist: 76
Recoil Direction: 99
Mag Size: 10
Barrel - Hammer-Forged Rifling, Smallbore, Extended Barrel, Corkscrew Rifling, Full Bore
Magazine - Accurized Rounds, Appended Mag, Flared Magwell, Tactical Mag,
Trait 1 - Outlaw/Kill Clip/Shield Disorient, Rangefinder, Quickdraw
Trait 2 - Rampage/Rapid Hit/Disruptive Break, Explosive Payload, Ambitious Assassin
Barrel - Corkscrew Rifling
Magazine - Drop Mag
Trait 1 - Kill Clip
Trait 2 - Rampage
Once one of the most popular HC archetypes in Destiny's Crucible, the legendary adaptives have fallen by the wayside in PvP, as Ace of Spades and Luna's Howl/Not Forgotten have charged to the forefront. The Kindled Orchid won't do a lot to change that, offering little in terms of PvP abilities that a well rolled Better Devils can't match, but in case you want to snag a good roll to store in the Vault for a later sandbox, try to get Hammer-Forged Rifling, Accurized Rounds, and either Outlaw and Rampage, or Kill Clip and Rapid Hit. You can also try to get Kill Clip AND Rampage, which, if both are active, will allow you to 2-tap enemy Guardians, but the chances of being able to have both up at the same time is pretty slim.
Instead of using this gun in PvP, I recommend giving it a shot in PvE. The barrel perks are the same, but I'd try to nab Appended Mag or Flared Magwell over Accurized Rounds, and then Shield Disorient (matching the shield and breaking it disorients all enemies that are hit by the blast) and Disruptive Break (breaking the shield of an enemy makes them more vulnerable to Kinetic damage). Since this is a Void primary, it can be absolutely lethal versus Vex, Envoys in Gambit, or the Scorn with void shields. Not to mention, Disruptive Break pairs very well with the new raid shotgun, which is Kinetic and has Trench Barrel. If you don't manage to pair the two shield perks, then any of the perks I mentioned earlier for PvP will also make this gun a phenomenal add clearing weapon.
The curated roll is pretty good trait-wise, but the barrel and magazine perks leave something to be desired.
As far as stats go, it's average or better across the board, which is great to see from a weapon that's acquired through an end-game activity like the forge. The recoil direction is second to none, so even if you were thinking about it for some reason, no need to stick a Counterbalance mod on it. I'd probably run with Backup Mage, Icarus Grip, or perhaps the new Rampage Mod if you get Rampage as a perk in the last trait slot.
The Ringing Nail - Energy (Solar) - BA Forge
Pros - Above average range.
Neutral - Average stability, reload speed, handling, and recoil direction.
Cons - Very low aim assist and mag size.
Time-to-Kill: 0.93s (6 crit 2 body), 1.33s (11 body)
Rate of Fire: 450
Impact: 29 (26 crit, 18 body)
Reload Speed: 52
Aim Assist: 37
Recoil Direction: 69
Mag Size: 32
Sight - Meyrin RDL/Meyrin RDS
Magazine - Ricochet Rounds/High-Caliber Rounds, Light Mag, Flared Magwell, Appended Mag
Trait 1 - Zen Moment (PvP)/Dragonfly (PvE)/Shield Disorient (PvE), Under Pressure, Quickdraw, Ambitious Assassin
Trait 2 - Kill Clip/Rampage/Disruption Break, High-Impact Reserves, Tap the Trigger
Sight - Meyrin RDL
Magazine - High-Caliber Rounds
Trait 1 - Dragonfly
Trait 2 - Rampage
Normally I'd be hard-pressed to recommend any other Precision AR, since Breakneck is so far and away the best at what it does in PvE, but The Ringing Nail actually has my attention for the sole reason that it's the only AR that can currently roll with Shield Disorient and Disruption break, and, since it's a solar weapon, that means it absolutely shreds the Cabal in the new Forge activities. The main drawbacks to this weapon are similar to those faced by almost all Precision ARs, meaning a smaller mag size and low aim assist, but aim assist isn't really important for the PvE-role this weapon lends itself to, and Backup Mag is a fantastic way to alleviate the mag size issues. For sights, I try to stick with the medium zoom options, which provide a good mix of damage fall-off and open sight picture, so the Meyrins will be what you want to look for. In terms of magazine perks, I think both Ricochet Rounds and HCR are fantastic options, as RR gives you some nice stat boosts, and HCR flinches PvE enemies enough that it basically keeps them staggered. Zen Moment and Kill Clip or Rampage makes for a great combination for PvE, and are also probably the perks you want if you decide to take this weapon into PvP, but I don't really recommend it at the moment. Instead, try to grab Dragonfly and Rampage from the curated roll which is excellent, or pair up the shield perks just the same as we did on Orchid, and shred through the Cabal and Scorn with ease.
No Feelings - Energy (Arc) - Scourge of the Past
Pros - High stability.
Neutral - Average range, reload speed, handling, aim assist, and mag size.
Cons - None.
Time-to-Kill: 1.00s (3 crit 1 body), 1.67s (6 body)
Rate of Fire: 180
Impact: 62 (55 crit, 35 body)
Reload Speed: 49
Aim Assist: 66
Mag Size: 15
Sights - Rasmussen ISA/Meyrin RDS
Magazine - Accurized Rounds, Steady Rounds, Tactical Mag, Appended Mag, Flared Magwell
Trait 1 - Outlaw/Rapid Hit, Ambitious Assassin, Triple Tap, Full Auto Trigger System
Trait 2 - Box Breathing, Kill Clip, Rampage, Moving Target, Explosive Payload, Zen Moment
Sight - Meyrin RDS
Magazine - Appended Mag
Trait 1 - Full Auto Trigger System
Trait 2 - Zen Moment
A scout rifle from an archetype that is normally overlooked, No Feelings has a trick up its sleeve to get itself noticed. It can actually roll with Box Breathing, which, if activated in PvP, will allow you to three tap opposing Guardians in a blazingly fast 0.67s. That's a TtK that is only matched by two other primary weapons: Not Forgotten and Luna's Howl. Unfortunately, Box Breathing is not necessarily the easiest perk use on a primary in PvP, but if you combine one of the lower zoom scopes like Rasmussen ISA or Meyrin RDS with a range boosting mag perk like Accurized Rounds and a Radar Tuner mod, you can probably get away with hardscoping some lanes against or holding down longer sightlines without losing too much situational awareness. As for the first trait slot, I'd probably try to pull Outlaw or Rapid Hit, just because they're the best perks in a weak slot, and they provide noticeable benefits even if they aren't game changing. If you don't manage to pull Box Breathing, Kill Clip can also allow the weapon to three tap, and may even be easier to activate, depending on your playstyle.
Unfortunately the curated roll is no bueno, so I'm not even going to discuss it.
Stat-wise, it looks good across the board, with impressive range for the class as a whole, and especially for the archetype. No major drawbacks at all, so I say give this one a shot, especially if you've been longing for a scout rifle that breaks the current meta mold.
Tempered Dynamo - Energy (Arc) - Scourge of the Past
Pros - Very high aim assist and recoil direction. Above average range and stability.
Neutral - Average bolts to kill, charge time, handling, and inventory.
Cons - Below average reload speed and mag size.
Charge Time: ~740 ms
Bolts to Kill: 5
Impact: 80 (39 per bolt)
Reload Speed: 31
Aim Assist: 65
Recoil Direction: 80
Mag Size: 5
Sights - Meyrin RDL
Magazine - Liquid Coils, Projection Fuse, Particle Repeater,
Trait 1 - Opening Shot, Backup Plan, Shield Disorient
Trait 2 - Kill Clip, Rampage, High-Impact Reserves, Auto-Loading Holster, Disruption Break
Barrels - Meyrin RDL
Magazine - Particle Repeater
Trait 1 - Backup Plan
Trait 2 - Rampage
This is actually the gun I'm probably the most excited about from this content drop. We've never before had a fusion rifle with Opening Shot before, but based off of how effective the perk is on snipers and hand cannons, I'm really looking forward to giving this one a try. It's from the Precision archetype of fusions, which I actually think is relatively overlooked in a world of shotguns, Telestos, and Erentils. This particular weapon has incredibly high recoil direction, which means the bolt spread is very easy to manually control, and it also has great aim assist, competing even with Erentil in that department. For the sight, I want as much zoom as I can get to push the range out, so the Meyrin RDL gets my vote. In terms of magazines, Liquid Coils is really the clear number one choice, as it allows it to consistently 5 bolt enemies at higher resiliency levels, as well as mitigating some of the damage fall off that fusions can suffer from. It does increase the charge time a small amount, but nothing that a good bit of practice pre-firing can't fix. For the perks, we already discussed Opening Shot, which I think is by far the best option here, but Backup Plan is also an excellent choice. In the second slot, I'd run with Kill Clip, since if you time it right you can have both Kill Clip and Opening Shot active at the same time, and that would make this fusion a map-monster. Definitely give it a shot!
The curated roll is a pretty good roll for a fusion rifle overall, but you might be better off just running a similarly rolled Erentil.
Tartara Gaze - Energy (Arc) - BA Forge
Pros - High range. Above average inventory.
Neutral - None.
Cons - Low handling, aim assist, and stability. Below average reload speed.
Rate of Fire: 72
Impact: 90 (433 crit, 158 body)
Reload Speed: 41
Aim Assist: 45
Mag Size: 3
Barrels - Fluted Barrel, Arrowhead Brake, Corkscrew Rifling, Hammer-Forged Rifling, Smallbore, Polygonal Rifling
Magazine - Flared Magwell/Appended Mag, Accurized Rounds, Alloy Mag, Tactical Mag, Extended Mag
Trait 1 - Outlaw/Quickdraw/Snapshot, Rapid Hit
Trait 2 - Kill Clip, Opening Shot, Box Breathing, Genesis, Rampage, Dragonfly
Barrels - Chambered Compensator
Magazine - Accurized Rounds
Trait 1 - Snapshot Sights
Trait 2 - Box Breathing
Whoever picked the perks on these weapons has done a phenomenal job of making each gun have one or two things that just make them so incredibly interesting or useful. In the case of the Tartara Gaze, it's the fact that it can roll with Kill Clip, which allows it to kill in a single body shot while active. It's the only sniper in the game that currently has the ability, so for anyone who is looking for something to relive the Final Round glory days of D1, this is the gun for you. Stat-wise it doesn't look great across the board, but that should come as no surprise, as the entire High-Impact archetype tends to have poor handling, aim assist, and stability. The bigger issue is of course that the zoom value is not as low as we'd like, but if you can get used to Bite of the Fox, Tartara isn't that much worse. As for perks, I'd wanted Fluted Barrel to try to up the handling stat as much as possible, and Flared Magwell to pair with Kill Clip in the last trait slot. In the first trait slot, you can hope for Quickdraw or Snapshot to increase the handling speed and/or ADS speed, or you can go with Outlaw to really play into to Kill Clip game.
The curated roll is okay, with Snapshot Sights and Box Breathing, but I really don't feel that it's strong enough here to compete with the random options.
Threat Level - Kinetic - Scourge of the Past
Pros - Very high mag size. High reload speed and aim assist. Above average inventory size.
Neutral - Average range, stability, and handling.
Cons - None.
Rate of Fire: 100
Impact: 65 (19 per pellet)
Reload Speed: 68
Aim Assist: 74
Mag Size: 7
Barrels - Any Barrel Except Smoothbore (PvE)/Full Choke (PvP), Rifled Barrel, Smallbore, Corkscrew Rifling, Barrel Shroud
Magazine - Tactical Mag (PvE)/Accurized Rounds (PvP), Appended Mag, Light Mag, Extended Mag
Trait 1 - Trench Barrel (PvE)/Slideshot (PvP), Moving Target, Rampage, Surrounded
Trait 2 - Grave Robber (PvE)/Quickdraw (PvP), Genesis, Air Assault
Barrels - Barrel Shroud
Magazine - Light Mag
Trait 1 - Trench Barrel
Trait 2 - Grave Robber
This is a kinetic shotty with Trench Barrel, and that's just about all you need to know. Realistically, if you've been looking for a way to run a different energy weapon while still maintaining the DPS advantage that comes with having a Trench Barrel shotty, this is your only option, so get to grinding. I recommend Full Choke as the barrel perk to tighten up the pellet spread for PvP, and in PvE you can really use any barrel you prefer, and Accurized Rounds for PvP or Appended Mag for PvE. Trench Barrel is obviously the only choice in the first trait slot, and then Grave Robber has great synergy for PvE, and Quickdraw is excellent for PvP in the last trait slot. Stats don't really much matter on this weapon thanks to the perks, but it's a Rapid-Fire frame just like the Ikelos shotty, and it has great aim assist and decent inventory size. Range, stability, and handling are all average with no drawbacks.
Bellowing Giant - Heavy (Void) - Scourge of the Past
Pros - Very high inventory size. High stability. Above average velocity and reload speed.
Neutral - Average RoF, blast radius, and handling.
Cons - None.
Rate of Fire: 20
Blast Radius: 75
Reload Speed: 50
Mag Size: 1
Launcher Tube - Volatile Launch, Linear Compensator, Confined Launch, Quick Launch, Smart Drift Control, Hard Launch
Magazine - Black Powder (PvP)/Impact Casing (PvE), High-Velocity Rounds, Implosion Rounds,
Trait 1 - Tracking Module, Rangefinder, Genesis, Quickdraw
Trait 2 - Cluster Bomb, Ambitious Assassin, Auto-Loading Holster
Launcher Tube - Countermass
Magazine - Impact Casing
Trait 1 - Tracking Module
Trait 2 - Cluster Bomb
A very solid rocket launcher that, if rolled well, can basically be a Sins of the Past or Sleepless with a faster RoF. This is because it's part of the Adaptive archetype that can fire 20 RPM (higher than the 15 of the High-Impacts), but the velocity is an outlier, sitting at a base of 63, which is 5-10 above most other Adaptives. I recommend trying to increase blast radius without hurting velocity too much for the barrel perk, with Volatile Launch or Linear Compensator, but you can also increase the velocity if that's your thing. For the magazine, I like Black Powder to boost the blast radius for PvP, and Impact Casing to boost the first hit damage for PvE. For traits, my personal favorite will always be Tracking Module and Cluster Bomb, but Rangefinder can boost velocity in slot 1, and Genesis is a good PvE perk for clearing shielded enemies. In the second trait slot, Ambitious Assassin is a really cool perk, as you can up the mag size as long as you kill some enemies before reloading, which can lead to some interesting instances in PvP where you get a kill and then have two in the magazine, reminiscent of the Truth days pre-nerf (you'll need to run two Rocket Launcher scavenger perks and hope to pick up heavy ammo from the ground in order to have three shots). The curated roll here is excellent for PvE, coming with Impact Casing, Tracking, and Clusters, and only missing a good launcher tube.
Hammerhead - Heavy (Void) - BA Forge
Pros - High range, stability, aim assist, and recoil direction.
Neutral - Average reload speed, handling, and mag size.
Cons - None.
Time-to-Kill: 0.53s (5 crit), 0.80s (7 body)
Rate of Fire: 450
Impact: 41 (41 crit, 30 body)
Reload Speed: 64
Aim Assist: 90
Recoil Direction: 75
Mag Size: 59
Barrels - Hammer-Forged Rifling, Polygonal Rifling, Chambered Compensator, Extended Barrel, Smallbore, Corkscrew Rifling, Fluted Barrel, Arrowhead Brake
Magazine - Ricochet Rounds/High-Caliber Rounds/Armor Piercing Rounds (PvE), Flared Magwell, Light Mag, Appended Mag, Alloy Mag, Extended Mag
Trait 1 - Feeding Frenzy/Tap the Trigger (PvP)/Shield Disorient (PvE), Dynamic Sway Reduction, Threat Detector, Quickdraw
Trait 2 - Rampage/Ambitious Assassin (PvE)/Genesis (PvE)/High-Impact Reserves (PvE), Surrounded, Mulligan
Barrels - Hammer-Forged Rifling
Magazine - Armor Piercing Rounds
Trait 1 - Feeding Frenzy
Trait 2 - Rampage
One of my favorite new weapons, the Hammerhead is a great substitute for anyone who doesn't want to use their exotic slot on Thunderlord, but just really loves using machine guns. The range, stability, aim assist, and recoil direction are all quite good (compared to the three weapons we have in this class), which means I have no problem saying that you can pretty much choose whatever barrel perk you want. I tend to go for stability for PvE, and range for PvP (because this gun can be outranged by players sitting back with pulse or scout rifles). For the magazine, I think any of the Rounds perks are excellent. Ricochet gives boosts to range and stability, HCR flinches targets and makes them either stagger (PvE) or unable to aim straight (PvP), and APR makes cleaning up waves of enemies incredibly easy with the over-penetrating rounds (and it melts through shields). In the trait slot, I think Feeding Frenzy is an all around great perk that helps to negate a couple of the less stellar stats: mag size and reload speed. Tap the Trigger is a great PvP perk that makes the gun incredibly accurate when fired in controlled bursts, which are often enough to kill players on their own. Shield Disorient, as discussed before, is also a great PvE perk. In the last trait slot, Rampage is amazing for both PvP or PvE, and Ambitious Assassin is a tier-1 PvE perk for anyone who wants to be an add clearer. Genesis is useful against the envoys in Gambit, and any other void shielded PvE enemy, and you'll be thankful for those returned rounds. High-Impact Reserves is actually great for adding a little bit of consistent additional damage to boss-melting, since it boosts the damage of your lower half of the magazine. I try to top all this off by adding a Backup Mag perk, which boosts the mag size up to a very respectable 73. The curated roll is also excellent, and I've have to problems running in it either PvE or PvP.
No Feelings (Precision Scout Rifle)
Rasmussen ISA/Meyrin RDS, Accurized Rounds, Outlaw/Rapid Hit, Box Breathing (PvP)
Tempered Dynamo (Precision Fusion Rifle)
Meyrin RDL, Liquid Coils, Opening Shot, Kill Clip (PvP)
Threat Level (Rapid-Fire Shotgun)
Any barrel perk except Smoothbore, Mag Size Increasing Perks, Trench Barrel, Grave Robber (PvE)
Full Choke, Accurized Rounds, Slideshot, Quickdraw (PvP)
The curated roll will also work for PvE
Hammerhead (Adaptive Machine Gun)
Any barrel perk, Ricochet Rounds/High Caliber Rounds, Tap the Trigger/Feeding Frenzy, Rampage (PvP)
Any barrel perk, Armor Piercing Rounds/High Caliber Rounds, Feeding Frenzy/Shield Disorient, Rampage/Ambitious Assassin/Genesis/High-Impact Reserves (PvE)
Kindled Orchid (Adaptive Hand Cannon)
Hammer-Forged Rifling, Accurized Rounds, Outlaw/Kill Clip, Rampage/Rapid-Hit (PvP)
Hammer-Forged Rifling, Appended Mag/Flared Magwell/Tactical Mag, Outlaw/Kill Clip/Shield Disorient, Rampage/Rapid-Hit/Disruptive Break (PvE)
The Ringing Nail (Precision Auto Rifle)
Meyrin RDL/Meyrin RDS, Ricochet Rounds/High-Caliber Rounds, Zen Moment/Dragonfly/Shield Disorient, Kill Clip/Rampage/Disruption Break (PvE)
Meyrin RDL/Meyrin RDS, Ricochet Rounds/High-Caliber Rounds, Zen Moment, Kill Clip/Rampage (PvP)
Fluted Barrel, Flared Magwell/Appended Mag, Outlaw/Quickdraw/Snapshot, Kill Clip (PvP)
Volatile Launch, Black Powder (PvP)/Impact Casing (PvE), Tracking Module, Cluster Bomb